tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2449369513887287854.post7323168894986751830..comments2023-03-25T10:15:40.276+02:00Comments on THE MYSTIFICATOR: Martin LutherThe Blogger Formerly Known As Lvkahttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09663692507774640889noreply@blogger.comBlogger10125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2449369513887287854.post-3366571911834615282010-01-25T03:26:03.228+02:002010-01-25T03:26:03.228+02:00The author of mystificator.blogspot.com has writte...The author of mystificator.blogspot.com has written an excellent article. You have made your point and there is not much to argue about. It is like the following universal truth that you can not argue with: The general perversity of the internet is always at it's maximum. Thanks for the info.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2449369513887287854.post-82313943309882072712007-11-07T16:11:00.000+02:002007-11-07T16:11:00.000+02:00Oh, Lucian, after blogging with you for a year, di...Oh, Lucian, after blogging with you for a year, did you really think you could offend me? :-)<BR/><BR/>No, I just have tolaugh when people, usually Protestants who don't actually know any history, can be so sure of past corruption in the Church, when really all they have is a lot of mental images that please them and form a foundatiion for their demonic anger. <BR/><BR/>You are right when you say that you don't see a lot of modern Protestant beliefs in Luther's writing, but I don't let him off the hook. The church was reformed constantly and is reformed constantly. St. Francis took his life in his hands when he went to see Pope Innocent III. Others were martyred for the faith. Luther was too much a coward to face down corruption, instead he hid in the North and eschewed those swarthy Mediterraneans and their "sensual" religion.<BR/><BR/>He also had interesting opinions about Jews and how to oppress peasants.Odysseushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00028190531437571201noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2449369513887287854.post-22280432850827212752007-11-07T15:53:00.000+02:002007-11-07T15:53:00.000+02:00You are correct, Lucian. Regretably, few Protestan...You are correct, Lucian. Regretably, few Protestants recognize their protest isn't the smae as Luther's. They are standing on a very small island, doctrinally speaking. One must feel pity for them, as all they have is the Bible as they read it through their Protestant lens.<BR/><BR/>Thanks for opening this discussion!Alice C. Linsleyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13069827354696169270noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2449369513887287854.post-30211556032582545422007-11-07T11:03:00.000+02:002007-11-07T11:03:00.000+02:00I don't equate the Church with its hierarchy for t...I don't equate the Church with its hierarchy for the same reason that I don't equate a country or a people with its/their government, (less so with one or more of its citizens). Furthermore, with all this going on, I still don't know wheteher they corrupted the doctrine also to reflect their misguided practices. Even if they did: was it "ex cathedra" or not? <BR/><BR/>Sorry if I've ofended You in any way, but these are my conclusions. If You are of a different opinion, then speak out Your mind. Luther himself blames neither the Pope, nor his Bishops; rather he compares the Commissaries with the enemies that planted cockle in the Master's wheat field at night, while this one was asleep. (#11). <BR/><BR/>As for his 95 Theses, I don't see how "Sola Fide, Nulla Facta" and-or "Once Saved, Allways Saved", together with "we don`need Priests no mo`" can be sanely extracted from them by a normal person ...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2449369513887287854.post-56778992129836787632007-11-06T21:38:00.000+02:002007-11-06T21:38:00.000+02:00And here they are! In all their English splendor! ...And <A HREF="http://www.aomin.org/95THESES.html" REL="nofollow">here</A> they are! In all their English splendor! :-) <BR/><BR/>But before reading them You have to understand something: <BR/><BR/>(1). I knew that Catholics are like the Orthodox, but I wasn't able to grasp what "indulgences" meant in an Orthodox world ... and then it dawned on me: ECONOMY of CANONS ! (i.e., a lessening of Canons). <BR/><BR/>(2). What are Canons? Well, ... penitence for sins: they're meant to help the passion-enslaved man to overcome his evil earnings and dark desires --and ultimately the ability and oportunity for sin-- by an increased number of longer and more fervent prayers, an increase in days and strictness of fasting, a multitude of metanias a day, etc. -- these (i.e., prayer and fasting) being the two weapons against the evil one, prescribed to us & practiced by our Lord and Redeemer. <BR/><BR/>(3). This canon was given to the penitent for a considerable amount of time, according to the depth of the roots that sin took hold of his soul, and the power that the enemy exercised over him. <BR/><BR/>(4). This amount of time followed his Confession and preceded his absolution. (obviously!) <BR/><BR/>(5). Now ... in the West, --Westerners being more bureaucratic and better organized tha we-- they simply absolved the guy, and then gave him a written "indulgence", which described his Canon, that he was obliged to do ("satisfaction", they called it) for his sins. <BR/><BR/>Now, we don't like this, because You can't celebrate Your forgiveness by ... tears of compunction! -- we fast with tears and prayers and metanias for forty days before Easter and Christmas, -or for two or three weeks before Dormition or Sts. Peter and Paul-, and then we take Communion on the day of the Feast, ... and then we truly feast afterwards ... it would be insane to do it backwards!<BR/><BR/>(6). Now, many people just didn't do their on-the-written-indulgence prescribed Canons, and just took Holy Communion for granted, and that was it. In the course of time, they came to the understanding that the few or many money they payed was enough of a sacrifice -- this might have been just a missunderstanding, or an evolution of the official RC faith at that time: I really don't know. <BR/><BR/>(7). Then, at a later stage, after it has already been all reduced only to money-buying of said indulgences, they began selling indulgences apriori, ... before the fact was even commited ... ! <BR/><BR/>(8). SO, ... based solely on an external act of unimportant cost -not to mention lack of any true spiritual value-, they basically saw themselves as floating on a fluffy little pink cloud of ... and believe it or not ... "eternal security" :D -- and this is NOT *JUST* A PUN !!! <BR/><BR/>Now, friend ... it is at *THIS* particular stage that little daddy Luther steps in, and says: "Well, dam' it, guys! Enough is ENOUGH!!!"<BR/><BR/>This and the fact that people avoided the Confessional --and the guy was a *Father Confessor* : ALL RC priests are by default so-- ... and he met them on the margins of the streets, being drunk to death; or he saw them frequenting bars or whore-houses, and he was beside himself and tried to be reprimand of them and reproof their evil habits ... but they just laughed in his face with the smile of sin on their lips, and with an alcohol-deformed voice said to him: "I don' need'ya'ny'mo', `cause I got'dis'indulgence, this plenary'ndulgence, that says I'm forgiven of *ALL* of my sins ... forever'n'ever, amen". <BR/><BR/>So, ... can You blame the guy? ... <BR/><BR/>All he does in criticising the above-describe state of facts, and yelling his guts out that PEOPLE HAVE REPENT !!! TRULY REPENT !!! AND THAT YOU'RE ONLY FORGIVEN WHEN YOU'VE DONE YOUR CANON, AND THE PRIEST AND FATHER-CONFESSOR ABSOLVES YOU !!! AND THAT THIS CANON AND THIS REPENTANCE IS NOTHING IF IT DOES NOT COME FROM A HUMBLE AND CONTRITE HEART AND WORKS THE DEADENING OF THE FLESH IN THE BODY !!! NO CUTTING CORNERS, NO INDULGENCES, NO MONEY-WASHING-AWAY-SINS, NO PINK `N` FLUFFY CLOUD OF "ETERNAL SECURITY" !!! AND THE (WISE)-GUYS WHO DO DIFFERENTLY WILL BE FACING ETERNAL *DAMNATION* PRETTY SOON !!!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2449369513887287854.post-85785773963724141872007-11-06T18:46:00.000+02:002007-11-06T18:46:00.000+02:00Mrs. Linsley said:-He's so much more Catholic than...Mrs. Linsley said:<BR/><BR/>-He's so much more Catholic than the Lutherans who took his name.-<BR/><BR/>I have heard this, and I know that he had a devotion to the Virgin. I have also heard that some "high-church" Lutheran dioceses have a more Catholic mass than the "New" mass in most Catholic dioceses!<BR/><BR/>Any idea as to why Luther (if his primary preoccupation was the corruption of the papacy) didn't simply become Orthodox? Were his theses also deviant from orthodox ideas?<BR/><BR/>Lucian said:<BR/><BR/>-a short little glance through his Theses will dispell away any impression previously held by their reader.-<BR/><BR/>Hey, I don't read German! English may sound Germanic but it's not German (English is a lovely mongrel). I will look them up in my encyclopedia, though.<BR/><BR/>I am still reading Zorba (chapter 12 or 13). I lay the blame of my slow pace at the feet of Kazantzakis, whose character is reading Dante. As soon as I read that I picked up Dante again (but I'm still in Hell!)Odysseushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00028190531437571201noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2449369513887287854.post-9560406155391786432007-11-06T09:40:00.000+02:002007-11-06T09:40:00.000+02:00... and as far as little daddy Luther is concerned...... and as far as little daddy Luther is concerned, well ... let's just say that a short little glance through his Theses will dispell away any impression previously held by their reader. :)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2449369513887287854.post-51038335450663846412007-11-06T09:34:00.000+02:002007-11-06T09:34:00.000+02:00And what's with the Martin Luther? You trying to a...<I>And what's with the Martin Luther? You trying to antagonize me</I>? :) <BR/><BR/>Well, Rob, with You finally out of the way, I can finally show the world my *TRUE* colors ... >:) :D <BR/><BR/>Anyway, ... I'm still prescribing You "<A HREF="http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0363713/" REL="nofollow">The Jealous God</A>" (2005), and I sure hope You haven't given up on Zorba, or Justin Martyr either ... :-)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2449369513887287854.post-47616949696825694532007-11-06T07:03:00.000+02:002007-11-06T07:03:00.000+02:00When Luther posted the 95 Thesis on the door in Wi...When Luther posted the 95 Thesis on the door in Wittenburg, do you think he had any idea where his ideas and actions would lead? He's so much more Catholic than the Lutherans who took his name.Alice C. Linsleyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13069827354696169270noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2449369513887287854.post-36690502232992865002007-11-06T05:28:00.000+02:002007-11-06T05:28:00.000+02:00Lvka,I finally saw Altered States last night.I don...Lvka,<BR/><BR/>I finally saw Altered States last night.<BR/><BR/>I don't want to hurt your feelings, so let me just say that I didn't like it. Don't fret though, we still have The Mission in common!<BR/><BR/>And what's with the Martin Luther? You trying to antagonize me? :)Odysseushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00028190531437571201noreply@blogger.com